What The F*ck Happened To Dating In College?

I’m sorry, but when the fuck did “dating” disappear?

I have a friend who just got back on the market. She’s super classy, and she’s kind of with this new guy. They’ve had a few (non-sexual) sleepovers, but she wants him to take her on an actual date before she gives it all up. Not unreasonable, right? But we were talking the other day and I actually heard myself say to her, “You can’t expect too much from a guy in college. Sex comes first, a date comes way later, and only if he really likes you.” LIKE REALLY? Wtf.

Girls – and boys – we seriously need to get our shit together.

Is it really too ball-busting to ask a guy to drop $6.75 on you at Chipotle after an hour (or five minutes, let’s be honest) of a semi-drunk hookup? Or wrong to expect the boy who so consistently texts you each Saturday at 2:39 a.m. to allocate one precious evening for a dinner date? HELL. NO.

I just don’t understand today’s collegiate standards. Dating has completely disappeared, and girls jokingly refer to a “walk of shame” as a “stride of pride.” Umm, I’m calling bullshit. Please show me one girl who looks proud on that lonely walk home, with obviously smeared mascara, messy bedroom hair, and eyes focused on the concrete ground.

And while we’re on the subject, when did girls become sluts, or teases, or skanks for going out to dinner with one boy on Friday night, and then to a movie with another on Saturday? How is that worse than sleeping with two different guys in one weekend, something that is becoming an increasingly common phenomenon on college campuses nationwide?

When romance wasn’t more confusing than a cumulative exam, A.K.A. when people were actually normal, you didn’t have to completely commit to one guy until he asked you to “go steady.” Until then, all else was fair game. Nowadays, that’s unheard of. Modern romantic tactics are much more sneaky and difficult to understand.

Did the boy you hooked up with two weeks ago just send you a casual, “What’s up” text? Does that mean you’re like, talking now? How long should you wait to text him back? Is it okay to double-text if he doesn’t answer within 10 minutes? Does “Heyy” or “Heyyy” sound better? Is an emoji too much? What about two emojis?

Fucking. Stop.

Unless that “What’s up” text is followed by a sincere, “What are you doing tonight? Let’s grab dinner together” text, he’s absolutely no concern of yours. What’s the point of pining over a douche bag? Gather up your precious self-respect and MOVE. ON. We girls can do so much better, and your 30-year-old self will thank you for it.

When you like a boy and that boy likes you, it shouldn’t be complicated. If (and hopefully when) you find that special person, the relationship should flow naturally. Fuck the mind games, fuck the booty calls, fuck him! (Just not literally.) But hey, if you’re all about the casual sex then I’m not here to stop you – I’m just telling you to get a clue.

Feature Image via Flickr: Thomas Leuthard

632 COMMENTS

  1. There should be a guy version to this, because all i see is a girl talking mostly about guys. Females do as much things as we do. One thing you are right about tho is that both girl and guys needs to stop that bs and get their shit together.

    • the reason that traditional dating has disappeared is because traditional marriage has disappeared.

      as all women have now had numerous one-night stands, instead of waiting for that one knight, why would you want to be the knight who has to pay for what others got for free when it was younger, hotter, tighter, and forty pounds lighter?

      and by pay, i mean you have to give up your time, your energy, your future salary in the form of child support and alimony, and your children. you will have to pay for your x-wife’s new lingerie for the biker boy she once banged for free, but now buys beer for with your money, via the alimony you must send her under threat of incarceration.

      zozozozozo

      helloz class! da professorsz is herez and we gonnaz talkz about some GREAT BOOKS 4 MENZ lzozolzol

      lzozzzzlzllzzlolzzloolz

      GBFM ECONOMICZ MAXIM # 1: A woman’s courtship value is equal or less than the lowest price she ever gave her pussy away for. lzolzoz

      GBFM ECOnOMICZ MAXIM # 1:

      A woman’s courtship value is equal or less than the lowest price she ever gave her pussy away for. lzozozoz

      After a woman has had a one-night stand
      or given her pussy for free
      her courtship value
      is 0.
      or less than 0.

      As why would you want to be the guy
      who pays for what others got when it was younger hotter tighter
      forty pounds lighter
      for freeee?

      lzozlzozlzzo

      After a woman passes 25, whence she has generally been buttcocked numerous times and desouled, her courtship value is negative. It is the woman, who is now wired fiat bernanke cash and allowed to excel in fiat bernanke programs that drug up and dumb down boyz while deocntsructing da GREAT BOOKS 4 MENZ and creating far more debt than wealth while bankruping the West morally amnd moneetarily, who must pay the man so as to court him.

      For a 25 year old multi-buttocked, desouled, bernankifed woman represents a huge risk to a man’s livelihood, his time, his conscience, his soul, his future earnings, and his general well-being. And the man must be compensated justly so as to have to court a woman over 25 who has been buttcocked and deousled and converted by the cenrta; bankerz into a vehicle of welath transfer lzozlz so dey could convert their masisve fiat debt into physical property by leveraging a woman’s sexuality for prviate profit gains while placing all teh risksz on good menz zlozzllz.

      lzolzolzozozozozoz

      • You’re a complete asshole. Women are not an object like cars. Our value doesn’t depreciate after we’ve been “used”. Our whole goal in life is not to stay pure in the hopes that some shallow man only concerned with our physical wealth will marry us. We have just as much right to do whatever we want as men, and if you think differently, good luck finding a loving, life-long relationship dickhead.

      • > Our value doesn’t depreciate after we’ve been “used”.

        Hahahaha.

        Denial ——> You are here
        Anger
        Bargaining
        Depression
        Acceptance

        > We have just as much right to do whatever we want as men

        Of course you do. And you will also deal with the consequence of doing whatever you want. The main consequence of having promiscuous sex is that your value depreciates.

      • So if a guy told you he had sex with 70 girls, would his value still be the same as a guy that has only had sex with 3 girls?? Whether you like it or not the guy is right, there is nothing chauvinistic about that.

      • Saying one human being is more valuable than another is disgusting. Everyone has their choices and their standards and their experiences. Saying someone is less of a human because they have more experience? Or because they have lesser standards? Maybe those people just don’t expect a lot from the world because they don’t have any reason to believe it has a better half. Maybe they have met people who make them see the worst in others.

        Your comments are dehumanizing and pathetic. Pull your head out of your ass and maybe you’ll see that there is more a girl can offer for your life than her vagina. Or maybe you’ll realize that no woman needs a man who acts like you do, when there are men who actually offer respect.

        We get out of the world what we put into it.

      • > Saying one human being is more valuable than another is disgusting.

        Hahahahaha

        > Everyone has their choices and their standards and their experiences.

        So deal with the consequences of your choices, standards, and experiences. The consequence is that most normal men will not see you as marriage material.

      • you are just a bitter little boy, who made some bad decisions and has to pay for them now, because he obviously was after looks, and chased some gold digging slut, though i’d be surprised you could even make a penny with your attitude.

      • Never married, never intend to marry. Gold digger or not. Hahahaha.

        I am a divorce lawyer though.

      • @Reggie,

        They have done it with plenty success in the last 30 years.

        Things are changing though.

      • Hahaha well as a guy i have had sex with over a hundred women, yet i found the one girl that i love most in the world and she has had sex once, so what does that say about me, what does that say about her?? I do agree though that maybe she could find someone who isn as much as a man whore as me but she fell in love with me for who i am, not my past experiences, so idk i just believe your view point is incredibly narrow minded but then again it is your view point not mine.

      • Right! Every time I have sex with an inexperienced man he turns into a damned stalker…which kind of blows her point away—I’m non-monogamous/serially monogamous and have been known to be dating 2 or people in the same time period, but the majority of the men I get involved with PROPOSE MARRIAGE. (I guess I’m just that good!) I’ve had every shaped diamond except heart and cushion cut, and most men (of course I don’t get involved with “conservatives” anymore since they tend to be the inexperienced-turned-stalker type) seem to value skills in bed over anything else. I’m FINE having a “relationship” that is sex based, he doesn’t have to spend money and neither do I, we can just agree to have a good time and then not be bothered by the typical relationship BS. The world needs to “get it” that young people–and a few of us old folks–just aren’t into trying to force a lifetime of happiness out of something that is so miserable for the majority of couples (marriage/coupledom). More power to the people who are willing to make such a huge sacrifice of themselves, but I for one and THRILLED that the world is moving in this direction. We need to get back in balance and biblical marriage and all its tenets are exactly WHAT tipped that balance to begin with.

      • I would much prefer to have sex with a man who had had sex with 70 women rather than one who had only slept with 3. People’s sexual abilities improve with experience, and that’s about it. Your genitals don’t like, rot and fall out.

      • Ew. And this is the mindset that the article is referring to. How many people can you give your body away to before it becomes public property? Absolutely cringe-worthy.

      • What makes you think anyone would be as obsessed about it as you? And, for that matter, what makes you think this guy thinks that men who sleep around are valueless? I’d be surprised to learn that he did.

      • Can I just say, that as a woman who has never had sex, and never will until I’m married, that I don’t think his value would ‘depreciate’. His value is the same as any human, and that value to me is not measurable.
        Now that doesn’t mean that I’d be ready to tie the knot with him. Sexual promiscuity at that level could be an indication that he may have some issues I’m not prepared to handle, or that our moral standards don’t align. But if that doesn’t mean he doesn’t hold value; it just means that I wouldn’t want to marry him. I may not want to marry one with an ideology different from mine concerning a different issue, like religion or politics, but that doesn’t decrease a persons’ value.
        And who knows, maybe he’s changed since then and we get along great. Fine then.
        (I have to say though, I appreciate that you phrased the question in a way to steer away from the idea that a woman’s worth is only based on her ‘sexual purity’, and make us reflect on what we’d think if the situation was reversed. Plus, it has a much more respectful tone! Also, sorry for so many words in one post!!!)

      • Is he a chauvinistic pig because he’s right, or because he is referring to you and you know it?

      • Because he’s a douche. He is neither right, nor does this apply to me and yet he’s still a chauvinistic pig.

      • Does that mean for every girl you bang your value is down? if you want to marry and have sex with a virgin, you better be a virgin yourself.

        Your value as a partner when from ok to none. Have fun being alone to rest of your life.

      • Men typically have to invest something to have sex with a woman. Attract them, game them, spend money and resources on them. If a girl gives it up for free to hundreds of men, not only do we find that instinctually repulsive for LTR(with good reasons), but it doesn’t make sense to men to have to pay/marry up for something that is given up for cheap to other men. It’s almost an insult. Generally women tend to claim they like men who can get more women, because usually that requires status, ability etc. They are attracted to that. How many women have you heard shame a man because he doesn’t get pussy or because he is a virgin? Quite a lot, and it’s due to instincts. Our mating patterns are amoral, but that’s how it is.

      • that’s stupid. a women’s value doesn’t depreciate with sex. It’s a group mentality. Let’s supposed that a women was a virgin. A guy can easily say, well that girl is easier to lay so lets go for her and skip the virgin. Also, she could just lie so where is the value in that. In the end it is a group mentality, you can look at it like business. Also a man doesn’t look more attractive when he lays alot of women, he looks like an asshole. If you want out of this game, it’s so simple. Just date good people and be done. It’s kind of like supply and demand. There are alot of good people out there. And it doesn’t matter if you suddenly decide that you once were sexually open to now wanting to be with one only. That is completely ok and works out very well. People just want to know that you won’t cheat, you will make a good mother/father and that you have added value to yourself with education and experience. The reason any logical person won’t “pay” is because they give for free, not because of previous experience. Think of escorts, they get 2000$/hr. And experience only appreciates. So no. If you meet a women who has had alot of experience but now says she wants only one and wants to feel special, and she has “real value” things like a bachelors degree and a good moral set and a kind/gentle personality. Then yeah, a guy will marry her. Pretty quick too. Probably even more so than a virgin women, because experience appreciates. The guy will know she likes sex which is pretty important…. No smart man will ever give up a beautiful, smart, kind, gentle and good women.

      • Jesus H Christ. Bro. C’mon, bro. Bro. Seriously, bro?

        When I take a girl out and buy her dinner, I’m not paying for her vagina. I’m paying for her burrito. And her time. And to show her I appreciate that she was willing to spend her dinner with me instead of someone else. Its not a business transaction, its a gift. I’m not doing because I might get lucky later. I’m doing it because I want to.

        Its called being a gentleman.

        And when I do sleep with a woman, the last thing on my mind is the other guys she’s been with. Why in the fucking world would I give two shits about that? If you only think about women as objects, and you assign them “value” like you can look them up in some Kelly Bluebook catalog, you’re going about it wrong. God damn, I shouldn’t even have to type that sentence. You’re disgusting. Ahhhhhh. BRO!!!!! Get it together, bro!

        But I’m guessing I’m not gonna change your mind. Good luck. I’m hoping you find what you’re looking for. I hear you can get a real steal on ebay these days.

      • @DougFunny

        THANK YOU! I’ve been reading through this chain like I was watching a train wreck that I couldn’t take my eyes off of. I had about lost faith in all of humanity, especially the men. I can’t believe this many people are involved in this argument – it’s literally making me feel sick to my stomach…

        The value of a person is not based on, nor does it decrease or increase, with the amount of people one has sex with. “If you only think about women as objects, and you assign them “value” like you can look them up in some Kelly Bluebook catalog, you’re going about it wrong.” <–fabulous statement.

        If more men had your mindset, maybe women would stop trying to find their value through meaningless sex and realize they have inherent value as human beings – everyone does.

        You are awesome. Your comments make me happy. Please continue being a gentleman and showing the world that people like you still exist.

      • Yeah, and your date will give you an awkward hug and a peck on the cheek. Then she’ll go home, wear sexy lingerie, and call her bad boy booty call who will fuck her brains out.

        LOL.

      • You are fucking rad. Thank you for being a voice of reason amongst the disgusting show of misogyny going on up in here.

      • So since you like to pamper because “you want to”. you would be fine if you keep dating her but she would be fucking other guys, right?

        the last thing on your mind is other guys she had been, but on her mind she is comparing you to the other guys she had been with. lol (I know that from experience, I’d psychoanalyze them).

      • Okay what your saying makes sense. And I couldn’t agree with you more. But we also have to put into Perspective what we are talking about here I am freshman college student finishing off my first year. I am also a frat man. I have seen girls that have been bounced around Greek row like the guys were playing beer pong. Do I find these girls less attractive at first? But If one happens to catch me then so be it is not going to say no just because she has been with a lot of guys. The amount of guys a girl is with is not the deciding factor but if we are honest is a factor in dating a girl.

      • Yes, DougFunny, thank you so much for restoring a bit of my faith in men. I can’t even believe this discussion has gone on this far regarding a human’s “value,” but unfortunately I haven’t been able to look away (like a horrible accident or something). Apparently, this debate has brought out the most pigheaded men on the internet…or you’re all just trolls. Our value isn’t based on our sex lives. If you’re taking a woman out just with the hope of gettin’ some later, you don’t deserve her, whether you buy her McDonald’s or a fucking lobster dinner.

        I don’t consider myself a feminist, but I don’t understand why women get named so quickly like this and many men so easily get away with doing whatever they want. If our “value” goes down, what happens to yours when you sleep with a bunch of girls? And can all you men on here tell me you don’t have quite a track record yourselves? Bet not.

        Oh, and DasItMane –“Generally women tend to claim they like men who can get more women, because usually that requires status, ability etc.” How many women do you know and talk to? Have you done a sociological study or something? Because according to that, most women are shallow. Which is funny, because from reading the men’s comments on here, I would say “generally,” most men are shallow. Luckily, I know that’s not true, thanks to some awesome guy friends I have and my wonderful boyfriend who is the opposite of you. And I know plenty of women who would respect a man who’s still a virgin and who do not go after men purely based on looks, money, status, etc.

        And getting back to what this article was actually about, I like the writer’s point. I don’t believe she’s suggesting just sleeping around with every guy you’re slightly attracted to. She’s just saying to go out with different people and get to know them, and in doing that you’ll find what you’re looking for in an LTR. The title of the article is “What the Fuck Happened to DATING in College,” and her point is not to sleep around with every guy who wants some but won’t even spend some time getting to know her first.

      • It’s bullshit that women prefer a man who’s got high numbers, if anything I find that offputting! I was involved with someone who turned out to be a serial womaniser and that behaviour is very offputting and it’s more than just the number of women. Like someone else on this thread mentioned, it indicates other issues and with this guy I was somewhat involved with he most definitely has A LOT of issues that he is conveniently avoiding like the plague. It’s one thing if it’s their past but another thing if they are continuing to screw around like that. What I have a problem with is men who take advantage of women or treat them badly in their self-serving path of pleasure. That’s just not on.

      • Thank you, Doug Funny. And I second what Jodobean said. The comment about the ‘train wreck’ is exactly how I was feeling. But this just proves that there ARE people out there who like to still think above the waist. Much appreciation. 🙂

      • Thank god there are still some gentlemen left 🙂 It’s sad that your attitude is so commended because it really should be the norm however it’s more of the exception

      • This is true though.. If guys sleep around their value depreciates also.. He’s not picking on girls he’s stating facts…. If you’re a “good” girl who isn’t sleeping around and is looking for a meaningful relationship do you really think you’re gonna go after the man whore who’s banged thirty chicks along with two of your best friends?? Come on get real and quit applying that everything being said is sexist.. It is a two way street!

      • Except most men don’t sleep around because women are the choosers of sex. Men have to put in large amounts of work just to have sex with a female; a female can have sex anytime she wants which is why it hinders her value if she does it so much with random people. A male, however, cannot .

      • I think you are grossly underestimating some members of your gender(men)… I know plenty of guys at college who sleep around and don’t have to put a bit of effort into it. I think that having sex “just for fun” or casually or even one nighters is reflective of both parties not just the girl.

        I also think that the number of people someone sleeps with is irrelevant in a relationship that actually matters. When I get serious with someone I don’t disclose my ‘count’ because its irrelevant to the situation and frankly I don’t want to know his either. If I like someone then the number of partners they have had, high or low, would not change that (cases of STD’s and such are different but generally speaking)..

      • > I think you are grossly underestimating some members of your gender(men)… I know plenty of guys at college who sleep around and don’t have to put a bit of effort into it. I think that having sex “just for fun” or casually or even one nighters is reflective of both parties not just the girl.

        Bull. A guy cannot walk into a bar and have sex with any girl he wants unless he’s Brad Pitt. Any average looking girl can walk into a bar and have sex with any guy she wants.

        > I also think that the number of people someone sleeps with is irrelevant in a relationship that actually matters.

        Its irrelevant to you but its not irrelevant to most intelligent men. Nobody wants to pay for something that other guys got for free. Nobody wants to marry a slut.

        > When I get serious with someone I don’t disclose my ‘count’ because its irrelevant to the situation and frankly I don’t want to know his either.

        Of course you don’t disclose your count because any smart man would see huge red flags if you told him the truth about your notch count.

      • Unless they outright tell you how are you going to know how many partners your gf/bf has had?

        So from what I gather here (some) men only see value in women for sex. So much so that the number of partners she’s had is more important than her life itself. A woman has no other qualities, values, or interests that would make her desirable as a mate other than the number of partners she’s had.

        I’m glad to see more evolved men like @DougFunny are out there. They give me hope for the future.

      • > Unless they outright tell you how are you going to know how many partners your gf/bf has had?

        I usually assume a woman has had 40 to 50 partners. That seems about the average. Sure, a nice girl who’s only been with 2 or 3 guys gets shafted by my assumption but her, I am playing for myself. Not her.

        > I’m glad to see more evolved men like @DougFunny are out there. They give me hope for the future.

        More evolved as in a loser who’ll pay for your shit after you are done having “fun” in your party days? LOL. I’d rather be a caveman!

      • sorry ladies but I kinda agree with the guys, sleeping around does lower a girls value because that is supposed to be a gift given to one guy that has earned it and deserved it, so just giving it out so easily makes you not seem worth the venture for a guy to work hard to court you and then put a ring on it. If there is anything my dad taught me was don’t sleep around because guys will look at you as a slut, he told me he valued my mother for her morals and that she didn’t bend her standards for nobody and that a guy would value the same in me and so far what he has told me has been true, even though I have yet to find the one guy to marry yet any guy I have dated and I haven’t put out as treated me with nothing but respect and we actually got to know each other on a deeper level. However I do believe that if a girl is in the cycle of being into sex, that sometimes even if they want to they don’t think they can stop because they now have a reputation, but that isn’t true I believe any girl can stop and make a vow and follow through to no longer put out until marriage and if someone says oh I heard you did it before you can basically tell them that was then and this is now and the future and it’s not happening ever again, and you can earn more of your value and respect back because you are finally respecting yourself.

      • Your comment really is messed up, especially as your a woman. Maybe if women stopped calling women sluts then things would be very different and men would look at woment different. Women and men don’t have a “value” because they are not object, they are people. It cannot be depreciated or raised, especially based on these standards. Why is it ok for men to have sex but not women? I’m so sick of this argument and watching people defend themselves from people when it’s nobosdy’s business but their own.

      • @Megan

        > Maybe if women stopped calling women sluts then things would be very different and men would look at woment different.

        Just because you stop calling a spade a spade, doesn’t mean it stops being a spade. The world will still see it as a spade.

        > Women and men don’t have a “value” because they are not object, they are people. It cannot be depreciated or raised, especially based on these standards.

        Stop being so naive.

        > Why is it ok for men to have sex but not women?

        Nobody is stopping you from having plenty of sex. Most comments only point out that there are consequences to being promiscuous, Of course the consequences vary for men and women and of course you need to deal with the consequences.

      • So what does that say about your value? Clearly you have negative value because your a douchebag.

      • The truth serum always has value to people who aren’t afraid of the truth and want to find it.

        If you hate the truth or are ashamed of it, you will hate the truth serum as well.

      • Although I don’t like the way some men are talking on this board, @megan, it doesn’t what they’re saying isn’t true. Most women don’t find it appalling that a guy has slept with a lot of women, would find it strange to date a man who is a virgin. It is because of the reasons that have been stated. It’s not difficult for women to find a guy to sleep with. In fact, most days we are just saying no to some guy. It is more work for men to find someone to sleep with, or at least it used to be.

        Now guys are not dating nor getting married because women take whatever they can get. Now, most college girls and grown women are only a phone call away, sorry a text away. The guys don’t even have to call. All a guy has to do is text 10 women at the same time and at least 1 will respond. Women go out with guys at the last minute, they ask men out and they buy them gifts, they are men’s beck and call, they drive to men’s homes and deliver the goods, like a pizza boy delivers pizza, without the guy having to do a single thing. Women are so desperate for company and that they will take whatever crums men offer them, so this is what they get. They think that to keep the guy interested they have to have sex with them on the 1st, 2nd or 3rd date, that’s if they even get a date.

        The problem now a days is that most women are not expecting or demanding much before they give their bodies away, so guys don’t do much anymore.

        Expect more and you get more. I used to accept crums and I got treated like crap. Now, I sit back and let the guys do the work. I get dressed up, I go out I have a great time doing the things that I enjoy, but I don’t chase after guys. I let them come to me. If I go to a bar or a party, I no longer spend all my time chasing after guys that are probably not interested in me. Instead I have fun and the guys that actually think I look good, approach me and ask me for my number. I don’t bother calling or texting guys. I let them text me. I don’t answer every silly little text message, because if a guy really likes me he’ll get some balls and actually call and ask me out on a date. I don’t accept invitations to “hang out” and I don’t spend 2 or 3 hours on the phone. If a guy wants me to spend 3 hours of my life talking to him, then he should at least invite me to dinner and talk to me face to face. Now I’m dating, going out on actual dates, and getting treated like gold. And I’m not sleeping with anyone. No one gets the goods, unless I’m in a committed long term relationship with them. Now dating is fun and my biggest problem is picking which guy I want to be in a committed relationship with. It’s a great problem to have.

      • – “We have just as much right to do whatever we want as men”

        You do indeed doll, and we have just as much right to decide the consequences of your attitudes towards us. See when feminism shifted focus from civil rights to todays third-wave sociosexual war on men feminism you didn’t expect what success would mean!
        You indeed managed to strip men of entitlement in a social and sexual context. You indeed managed to make men more responsible for managing their sociosexual lot in life and never ever depend on someone else but themselves if they want to improve it.

        However the unintended consequence (for your gender) is that we no longer accept any sociosexual responsibility because there is no reason to carry it in todays “equal” SMP/MMP. Basically freeing yourselves of sociosexual and moral “oppression” in favour of absolute individual freedom also meant you freed men of the same!

        You do indeed have absolute right to carry yourself through the modern SMP/MMP any way you want. But in return so do we, we simply don’t accept anything less. You don’t owe us anything, we don’t owe you anything. The fact you don’t like what we’re saying about you doesn’t mean jack shit to us and it’s about time you deal with it just like you tell men to deal with it when they don’t like your views on todays SMP/MMP.

        There is no problem, you are the problem because you don’t like it and want us to change it all for you. The only one that can solve the problem that is you, is you. Good luck with that. 🙂

      • Its not even about that, its that after all the guys woman sleep with, lets say shes had 10 one night stands since college. She gave herself to those guys, any one of them could have made her theirs, there is an intrinsic value system and a guy doesnt feel like you, himself or a relationship with you is special in any way, life isnt like the movies, there are consequences for your actions. Theres nothing special about giving it up to a guy you met in the park or library. I wouldnt feel like a girl tjats been with 15 guys is a special girl and its not by an act of god were “talking” because obviously any good looking guy who tries could also. You might not value yourself or value an authentic relationship,but guys do.
        Thats all I got to say about that

      • Look Lindsay, if you women weren’t objects and had some self respect, then you wouldnt allow yourselves to be used (like objects) for sex by every frekin guy who comes around…by doing so, you devalue yourselves!
        then ya, your worth technically speaking, and as sad as it is… “decreases”

      • “you wouldnt allow yourselves to be used (like objects) for sex by every frekin guy who comes around”

        Hey, guess what? Women like sex just as much as men, and choosing to have sex with someone does not mean a woman is letting herself be used like an object. Do you consider every woman you sleep with to be the equivalent of a masturbatory device? Good luck finding someone who’s willing to be in a relationship with you if that’s how you view women.

      • As much as I disagree with this troll, it is not without merit to note how men and women often view their prospective partners given age and number of sexual partners and the quality of said partners. For instance, I’ve only slept with eleven different women, during a third date about a year ago, the topic came up and I said eleven to which she replied “that many? I’ve only been with one person.”

        Her tone immediately changed and so did her interest. Nevermind that they were all people I’d been in a year or more relationship with (which was the next question). Considering her sudden tone change and disinterest in me (as well as what her friend had told me), my value had suddenly depreciated due to the number of people I’ve slept with.

        As much as people seem to get all up in arms about the very thought of one person being more “valuable” than another, it seems like we all place value on the people we know and meet; we break them down into catagories and subconciously rank them, assign them a number.

        Quick test: Is there anybody in your circle of friends or even family that you don’t enjoy hanging out with? That person you avoid contact with unless you have to. Well, congratulations, you’ve just places a value on a person based on your own personal biases.

        And personal biases can be anything from something they like to the number of partners they had. It doesn’t make it right, but it’s not inherently a bad thing.

      • could this be the same lzozlzozlozl that has graced the boards over at the chateau de roissy? could it be?

      • This is one of the saddest things I’ve ever read. Do you really only value a woman by the potential for sex? I’d like to hope that in today’s day and age, when you’re marrying someone, you’re marrying them because they help make you a better person and you want to share all of the important facets of your life together, INCLUDING money. If you’re only looking at marriage as a straight transaction, even with the very strong realities of women possessing their own jobs, careers, and dreams, then you’re either looking for an extremely outdated woman/relationship, or you need to get your head out of the 1950’s and start treating the people around you with respect. To judge a woman’s value by the relations she’s had is beyond crass – it’s repulsive. I sincerely hope that you were somehow kidding, otherwise your entire argument has been demeaning and pathetic.

      • Brittnay my dear child, he’s not the one stuck in the 1950’s. You are the one stuck in the 1980’s and 1990’s.

        If you think the modern man marries for money, you are sadly mistaken. If he isn’t paying alimony or child support, all a man needs to live a comfortable life is about $30,000 to $40,000 a year. So if I am making $100,000 the remaining $70,000 goes straight to my asset column.

        The whole American dream of having a life long job at the big firm, a McMansion with a white picket fence, 3 cars, a wife and 3 kids is past its expiration date in 2014.

        A modern man, such as myself, is an entrepreneur with no company loyalties, rakes in $50,000 one year and $800,000 the next year, lives in a one bedroom apartment with minimalist decor, has casual sex with numerous women, travels for pleasure, and has no interest in marrying you or raising your kids or giving away half of his assets and future income to you in a divorce.

      • $100,000 goes to $55,000? What country do you live in? In the US, I pay $22,000 in taxes on $100,000.

      • are you sure about that @Dave from new castle? because my 100K went to 60, and i am single man no writeoffs

      • Of course you have to account for taxes.

        Let’s say it’ll be $40,000 not $70,000.

        My point still stands.

      • If you’re paying more than 35% tax on 100k you’re doing it wrong and you probably need to fire your financial adviser and tax accountant (or hire one because you have no idea what you’re doing)

      • Well in Canada 40-45% is a good rate on 100k, especially Ontario. Why isn’t this article posted in a tax blog? Let’s get to the bottom of this issue!

      • As long as you’re only sleeping with women who have the same intention of not being into long term relationships and marriage and you’re not being a disrespectful asshole, I can’t say I see a problem with being a free person. The problem is when men see this life view as an excuse to use random women just for what he can get out of sex and refuses to do the bare minimum in bed. A lot of women, especially young career women, aren’t looking for a marriage, they’re just looking for a guy who can give a good shag, and actually care if the woman gets to finish too. Just because a woman isn’t your girlfriend doesn’t mean sex isn’t a responsibility.

      • > The problem is when men see this life view as an excuse to use random women just for what he can get out of sex and refuses to do the bare minimum in bed.

        I don’t see any problem with that. Stop being so judgmental with your puritanical views on sex.

      • ahaha I’m sure you pay for it with dollars. It’s funny though because prostitution is way cheaper than marriage, and it’s mutually beneficial. It’s alot better than going after girls that are looking for marriage and then being hurt. That’s just morally wrong to lie to someone.

      • That’s the problem, a lot of women think they just want sex from a guy, but after having casual sex, it’s often never really casual for the women. She expects a guy she had random sex with to care about her feelings or care about her. Look at all the miserable women in Fwb relationships. If you want to go out on a date with a guy, then don’t accept “hang out invitations” don’t have sex with him until you know him better. Expect more and you get more.

      • Where in my argument did I say that the modern man married for money? You obviously misread me, starting with how to even spell my name. My argument was based on the fact that money is not/should not be the basis for a marriage anymore, as plenty of women and men are perfectly capable and desirous of supporting themselves. Before you respond to an argument, you should try reading all of the person’s points first.

        You’re absolutely right on one point – the traditional American dream, with the man supporting a woman fiscally, is no longer sought out by the majority of the population. What you seem to be missing is that it’s no longer sought out by the majority in the cases of men AND women. However, if a person wants to base choosing a life partner based on the number of sexual partners they’ve had, aka their “courtship value” as was the argument of the initial post I responded to, and therefore sees women as only a monetary gain to their lifestyle that “depreciates” with the number of people she’s been with, now, that’s what I find an abysmal reason to base a relationship off of. We agree – a marriage shouldn’t be based around money anymore, and both parties of a partnership should have equal capability of supporting themselves.

        However, you seem to be advocating for no marriage at all, which is perfectly fine. It just isn’t an applicable argument against the case I was trying to make.

      • You seem to be missing a critical element in this argument. Women are the more valuable gender in the SMP. Your gender is the sexual gatekeeper. If men had their druthers, we’d copulate with every hottie we see on the spot. For evidence of this behavior look at the gay community where over half of homosexual males admit to having more than 500 lifetime sexual partners and are ~40 times more likely to have HIV and Syphilis. If men had it there way, sexual hedonism would be rampant.

        With financial freedom, you seem to think that a woman now has license to indulge her proclivities without consequence. That assumption is patently false. Men find value in a woman that makes prudent decisions regarding her reproductive habits. We care not what her earning potential is, her ability to do nearly any number of other tasks, or where she got her degree.

        Outside of her physical appearance, the single most important factor in determining the suitability of a long term mate is her femininity. Your gender doesn’t seem to understand that we realize how easy it is for you to have sex with multiple partners. When a woman behaves like a man she is signalling that her femininity has been bankrupted. Men understand that appearances diminish, however femininity should not. No man with options will agree to more than a short tryst with such a woman.

      • Well all the guys out there that don’t value women, used they brain more than the average men, but always remember that is not about them, is about her,and that’s how they going to get her to not value herself by know more about her and how she value her own self and use what they know about her to get her, so women values is not in men action and how he treat her but in how she treat herself even if you she had million sexual partners.

      • The “femininity” you refer to is a leftover from times, when social status and inheritance where solely based on who your father was. Times, when the reputation of the mother or wife was the main proof of social value for all members of the family.

        If you think prudency is a warranty for loyalty, I respectfully disagree. And when I as a woman behave “like a man”, as you say, I doesn’t mean my femininity has been “bankrupted”, it means that I feel free to make my own choices, just like you do. Your choice of language really does say a lot about you… “suitability”… bah. Who wants to live suitable. But I do agree on your point with the gays.

        I think, that now that women can support themselves, a lot has changed. Unfortunately, a lot of men, and some women too, are still stuck in old role models. I’d say that men are brought to a conflict with this old role model. They have to decide whether they can accept a free woman, one that is a free as them, or not. Because, you know, “your gender doesn’t seem to understand”, that we know how easy it is for you to have sex, too, and that we want just the same. Double standard is tricky, huh.

      • Once again, take a trophy you narcissistic asshole, you probably just replied to some 17 year old on the internet in like Georgia. I really REALLY hope you’re feeling awesome about yourself right now. Wow. 7 incher. Much impress.

      • I find 17 year old girls really cute. Only have to wait 1 more year before they pop out of that oven, all legally ready for me and smelling delicious!

      • I like how they are “ready for you” as if their preferences and choices don’t matter, only yours.

      • omg has everyone lost touch in the point of marriage and love? not everything about money like my god! no wonder you can’t find a good women or be happy in a loving relationship, you base it off all of the wrong things and obviously didn’t work hard enough at it.

      • Would you like a trophy or something? If that what you were going for when you decided to post your life story on some article written by a college girl on the internet? Wow. Much impress.

      • Yes I would like a trophy. It better be nice and shiny with a name plaque engraved on it.

      • “Do you really only value a woman by the potential for sex?”….Do women only value a man by the size of his bank account?

      • Last time I checked, the majority of us don’t give a shit about your bank account because we’re more than capable of attaining a job and taking care of ourselves thank you very much.

        As for the men that get dumped because they supposedly “don’t make enough money and that shitty woman they were dating is just looking for someone to take care of her,” that woman actually dumped you because one of 3 reasons: (a) You don’t know how to manage your money, it makes you appear like a 16yr old child (b) she straight up didn’t like you, nothing you can do about that or (c) you’re right, she’s a shitty person and just looking for money.

        90% of girls are dumping the guy for the first 2 reasons. 10% are not very kind human beings and do the third. To assume that we only value men by their bank account size would be just as narrow-minded as assuming that all men are chauvinists and are only interested in our potential value through sex. We should be empowering BOTH men and women to break these gender stereotypes, not buying into them.

        Pretty sure a man would want nothing to do with a women who explicitly stated to him that “she’s super concerned about how large his bank account is.” In the same way, I wouldn’t give the time of day to any man who told me he was weighing my value as a person based on my previous sexual encounters…

        There’s a shitty 10% side to every gender. That doesn’t mean we should apply that 10% to everyone though.

      • > Last time I checked, the majority of us don’t give a shit about your bank account because we’re more than capable of attaining a job and taking care of ourselves thank you very much.

        Is that why you sue for alimony and child support?

        No strong independent women who don’t need no man in family courts, eh? LOL.

      • Women do sue for alimony and child support, but that’s incredibly irrelevant. Besides the fact that there are women who pay both alimony and child support (I have an uncle who receives alimony from his ex-wife because he was out of work for a number of years and she financially supported him, for example), you have failed to take into account the context of why these laws exist.

        In the case of child support, it is difficult in today’s world to financially support children without two incomes. So if you get sued for child support, that’s because it’s your child, too, and there is no reason that it should be completely on the woman to support someone who is also supposed to be your responsibility.

        The case of alimony is slightly more complicated. It exists historically because it was not (and is still not, in some demographics) socially accepted that women should have careers of their own. Instead, they were expected to just be housewives and live off of the husband’s salary. Since women weren’t making their own money because of the patriarchal values that constricted them to their home, if a couple was getting divorced for one reason or another, the woman would have no way of supporting herself because for so long she was forced to depend on her husband. Hence, alimony.

        The debate about whether or not maintaining the practice of distributing alimony is a good thing is extensive and frankly inconsequential to the original topic. However, you should know that the only reason both alimony and child support laws came into existence in the first place is to protect women from the patriarchy and misogynists like you.

      • > Women do sue for alimony and child support, but that’s incredibly irrelevant.

        So any fact that breaks down your argument is irrelevant? Hahahaha.

        No wonder I don’t take women seriously.

      • Maybe if you took women seriously you would pay attention to the points they were making so you could actually form any kind of valid argument. Honestly, I hope for your sake your blatant sexism and misogyny is clouding your judgment. Otherwise you have proven yourself to be completely biased, presumptuous, ignorant, and blind to the overwhelming privilege in society you were given from birth by having a penis. It truly is no wonder you don’t take women seriously. The second you did, you would realize that every human being is born with the same capacity for thought and intelligence. It’s society that tells us to think of ourselves differently based on which function our bodies serve in procreation. Nothing about your gender determines how smart you are. But if it helps you sleep at night to think your penis makes you smarter than me, then by all means keep thinking within the limited scope society allows you. It won’t have any effect on the millions of women who have surpassed you intellectually.

      • No sweetie, that Masters degree in Underwater Basket Weaving does not make you smarter than me.

      • Men sue for that shit too! There are assholes on both sides of the fence.
        This whole argument is funny.

      • LMAO. I’m sorry for all you dudes who are so convinced that all women are out for is to marry a big bank account. They’re out there, sure. But really? Come on. We DO actually care about stuff other than purses and hurting men’s big frail egos, or whatever you think it is that our lives revolve around.

      • Many women and many men do understand that, just as many women and men may not. But what people have to understand is that everyone views sex and its meaning differently. Just because one person takes sex more casually than another doesn’t invalidate their views nor does it make them “depreciated” or no longer valuable. My argument rests on the feeling that you can’t judge a woman (or a man) based solely on the number of partners they have had, or the fact that they have had partners at all. If you are holding yourself and your potential partner to a religious or moral standard of abstinence before marriage, that’s one thing – you’re basing your relations on the moral decisions you want to make and share with said partner. But that doesn’t make another’s decision to share in sex with another person a bad decision, nor does it mean that a woman should be held to the standard of refraining from sex while a man is allowed to have sex without the social stigma. To ignore that there is a social stigma for women would be folly, but it’s the job of everyone to work towards a place where that social stigma could be gone.
        Case in point – sex does matter, sex does have meaning, but sex having meaning doesn’t mean that you have to not have it in order for that meaning to be there. Amazingly enough, just talking with another person about their sexual encounters and their reasons behind them would be much more enlightening as to what they took away from the experience and the meaning that they invested in it instead of the mere “number” of partners they’ve been with.

      • Brittany, you can’t be that dense. There is a double standard. It exists because no matter what, men and women are different; we were born that way and it is how nature intended. The nature of the man is to procreate and spread his seed as much as he can. The nature of woman is to selectively find a partner with the best genes to bare children. We are fucking machines, you are the gate keepers. No matter how much you women try, those things will never change. Men, like myself, who are educated and have future prospects do not want to marry the town whore. What can you not understand about that?? We don’t want to marry a slut who has fucked 50 guys already. So, in all reality, we would like to fuck this slut but not marry her, because her value is diminished. What man wants to settle down with an ole skank? Not me and not the other men in here. Wake up dumbass, no one self-respecting man wants to be tied down with a loose sloppy vagina. Plus a girl with loose morals can stay out on the street for all I care.

      • If you honestly think that a woman’s vagina becomes loose the more guys she has sex with you are an idiot. Think of this: a woman of 20 who has sex with three different guys a month would be labelled a “slut” based on your standards and thus have a loose vagina. Now take a woman of 20 who marries young, is a virgin until she’s married andhas sex three times a week, far more times a month than the “slut”. Is her vagina “loose and sloppy”?
        Women’s vaginas are strong and aren’t shaped by your penises, no matter how important and life changing you may think your penises are.

      • Oh God. He didn’t mean it literally. Sloppy was used as a metaphor.

      • That is BS, I know people of both genders for whom sex has no meaning and people of both genders for whom it does. Your understanding of human anatomy is hilarious, though.

      • Congratulations for using your biological history as an excuse for poor behavior and standards that you would find abhorrent if they were applied to you. You’re right, there is a double-standard, but this double standard is culturally based and has been cultivated for only the past 10,000 years. If you opened up a textbook that had anything to do with humanity before the Agricultural Revolution, you’d learn that monogamous pairing, and the institution of marriage or of women as “gate keepers”, is a highly Westernized ideal that’s been crafted as a way for men to codify or explain their jealousy over women and as an explanation as to why they are entitled to suppress a woman’s sexuality.
        Our biological tendencies don’t have to be representative of our behavior, and to consciously and willingly hold a double standard just because you’re “a fucking machine” seems to me to be a terrible foundation for your own self-worth.
        Also, there is a significant difference between someone being a “whore” and someone being open to multiple sexual experiences. While the ideas are used interchangeably, namely by short-sighted people, a person can have multiple sexual experiences throughout the course of their life without thinking of sex as a casual encounter.
        Even more importantly, sex can be a casual encounter, and there honestly should be nothing wrong with that. I’m sorry that you evaluate a woman’s worth merely on the number of sexual partners she has had. But it’s time to get real – women no longer need you and your income in order to support themselves and their children. They no longer need to ensure that the man they have sex with is a keeper because there are many methods out there to prevent pregnancy.
        Who you wish to marry and the standards you hold her to are completely up to you. It’s unfortunate that you wish to perpetuate this idea of a double standard, something that I whole-heartedly believe can be overcome with enough conscious work by our populace. But you should never assume that just because a woman has had more than one sexual partner that she’s a “slut” or is undeserving of being considered a real person. Ideas like that are what dehumanize women and make this world a difficult place to live in.

        I appreciate your input and your insight, but I do wish that you’d address me in a more intelligent manner. Calling someone unintelligent because their ideals and beliefs don’t match up with yours is a serious logical fallacy.

      • I appreciate your comment and I agree. Thanks for being so eloquent and prospective, I could not have put it as well as you did.

      • I am so saddened by this reply. I’m so saddened by this whole string of replies. To say its the nature of men to procreate and spread his seed as much as he can, meaning you have as much sex as you possibly can, and in the same reply, you say you don’t want to marry the town whore (which really seems to be you). You don’t want to f*#& a woman who has slept with 50 men, but your value doesn’t diminish because you’ve slept with hundreds of women (spread your seed as much as you can, you say). What makes you think a woman wants to settle down with an old whoremonger who has f*#$ed so much his dick is stretched out and dangling down to his feet, covered in herpes, crabs, and whatever else STD you have caught in your years of whoremongering, & who can’t get it up anymore because of overuse. It is NOT the nature of men to procreate and spread his seed. THAT is the nature of ANIMALS. And not even all animals do that. F*#$ing machines and gatekeepers? Where are you from? Would you say this to your mother, grandmother, or any woman you love, IF you’re capable of love? You’re not only demeaning women, but you’re demeaning men and painting a pretty ugly picture of men who truly have nothing but good intentions and want meaning and companionship in their lives. You REALLY don’t have to worry about being tied down by a woman. No one would want you once they find out what you’re really like, and you can’t hide it forever. All you education, success and money will mean absolutely nothing when you’re laying when you’re laying on your death bed, with no one around you but that nurse with the cold bed pan wearing three pairs of rubber gloves because he/she is afraid to touch your dick in fear of all your diseases you caught during your seed spreading. None of it will matter when you die, and there is no one to claim your body. It won’t matter, because there will be no one who cared about you enough to even remember you the day after you die. A persons value doesn’t come from how many people they have slept with. A persons worth doesn’t come from their education & success. It comes from who they are on the inside, what they give to the world from their heart, not their dick or bank account! You’re seriously a very sad, ugly hearted, worthless man.

      • Are you saddened by the string of replies because you know they apply to you and you are disappointed that men today are no longer willing to get shamed into marrying sluts?

      • Wow, you got me there Liz. Clearly, I am jealous of my father and want to fuck my mother.

      • I’m a happily married 38 year old woman, who has only been with 2 men in her life, and both were long term relationships, one being my husband. I have a wonderful family and only added to that when met my husband and his family. I didn’t marry for money. Both of us met at the lowest points in our lives, and had common interest, have equal earnings, we’re far from well off, but we are happy with what we have. We’ve been together since I was 19 and he was 20. How many women he’s been with, I don’t. Thats not important to meIts never been important to me. We have never discussed it. Thats in the past. We are who we are now, and that is all that matters. Our lives together have been splatters with lots of great times and some harsh times, but we supported each other through it all. We had a son before we got married, who was born with a congenital heart defect who passed away at 10 months old, and while it was one of the hardest things we have ever gone through in our lives, we stuck together, supported each other, not with money or success, but with love. We went on to get married in a small ceremony, because it was all we could afford, and it was the perfect ceremony, because we were together. We’ve since had three children, one adopted, have had our arguments, fights, everything that goes along a normal relationship. We’ve gone through job losses, stay at home dad, stay at home mom, seasonal jobs that had my husband gone for three months at a time, but had wonderful times when he was home and made enough memories to last us while he was gone again. Sure, he could be like some men, and I could be like some women and cheat while were apart, but I trust him with my heart and he trust me with his heart, thats called love and what normal relationships are like. Not all women and men are like those you see on the “reality” shows. Far from it. So no, none of these apply to me or my life in general. I never shamed my husband into anything. We shared a common heartbreak after losing our son, and if we could make it through that and still be together, then we could make it through life together, and come out at the end of our lives, fully happy & proud at what we achieved together, and as individuals. I learn something new every day about myself, about my husband, my kids, and the people around me and around the world. One thing I learned while reading this string of replies and after posting my last reply, what you say, or think of me, or other women doesn’t really matter, because in the end, I know the truth of my life, and you knew absolutely nothing about me until now. And even if all this doesn’t change your mind, it still doesn’t matter, because I’m a happy but sad at times, strong but weak at times, smart but stupid at times woman who is in love with a man who has never judged me for my past, and although we may not be financially successful and as educated as you (a community college education is all we could afford to pay for by ourselves, without having any debt to pay off afterwards), we are financially stable, have a stable home for our children for ourselves, and I won’t let a cynical person like you take away any of those accomplishments from me. So while you sit there, trying to think of another cynical reply to send my way, I’m going to go kiss my kids goodnight, and crawl into bed with the love of my life and fall asleep to the sound of his snoring, which reminds me that I AM NOT alone in life. I wish you a better life then you wish for yourself. Good Night.

      • There’s something I don’t think you understand here. Sex, in this day and age, does NOT mean children. RE: Sex =/= children. We have protection now! We have premarital sex! We can hinder pregnancy! Still with me here? Good. Okay, so if sex doesn’t mean children, that means that the inherent value of sexual selection is gone. So choosing a sexual partner does not mean choosing the genetic progenitor of your child. It simply means choosing your sexual partner.

        So, now what? Who needs to find the best genetically compatible mate if there’s no children resulting? Who needs to be a ‘gate keeper’ when there’s no chance of reproduction with the ‘fuck machine’?

        Once the female wants something more than sex, she will be as choosy as she wants. But if she wants sex and sex alone, genetics aren’t what she’s considering.

        Also, seed? Really? This isn’t a fucking harlequin novel, man.

      • Not all ideas are equal. There are good ideas and bad ideas. The validity of a particular view, is the lowest standard you can apply in assessing its worthiness . Other considerations for instance, include likelihood of the re-occurrence of past destructive behaviour for a start. Take for example a person who has indiscriminately had hundreds of sexual partners. While you suggest its valid, one might see it as destructive, and seriously harmful behaviour. The line of reasoning that suggests that anything goes, creates a situation where women do not make an effort at self improvement and is the reason why the quality of women is deteriorating and men see no value in dating them. Its never occurs to women to think of ways in which they could be more valuable, and in men’s eyes have only become overly entitled, yet offering us nothing we want. The dating game used to be you met a girl you thought was everything you wanted, you treated her with care and in exchange you got something “you valued”.

      • OK… now switch it around. Not all ideas are equal. There are good ideas and bad ideas. The validity of a particular view, is the lowest standard you can apply in assessing its worthiness . Other considerations for instance, include likelihood of the recurrence of past destructive behaviour for a start. Take for example a person (Man) who has indiscriminately had hundreds of sexual partners. While you suggest its valid, one might see it as destructive, and seriously harmful behaviour. The line of reasoning that suggest that anything goes, creates a situation where men do not make an effort at self improvement and is the reason the quality of men is deteriorating and women see no value in dating them! Its never occurs to men to think of ways in which they could be more valuable, and in women’s eyes have only become overly entitled, yet offering us nothing we want. The dating game used to be you met a guy you thought was everything you wanted, you treated him with care and in exchange you got something “you valued”

        Seriously… Just think about what you are saying.

      • Honestly, I think you are completely right and I am a female. If we give our bodies to random people, why in the world would someone want us. I personally think your body is meant for your one person. If we stoop so low to just fuck random people, we don’t deserve to have one person.
        I know that college is all about ‘experimenting’, but you could do that with one guy. You and that one guy could just have threesomes or try different positions, have drunk sex. It’s still experimenting, and hopefully you won’t have to worry about as many STD’s.
        Girls/Women/Females have become so prone to blaming everything on the guy. I’m sorry, but unless you are getting raped, one night stands are YOUR FAULT TOO! Stop trying to pin it on someone else, you chose to drink, you chose to get naked. So shut the fuck up!

        This article wasn’t only about sex though, it did mention how guys don’t take women on dates. But as the author said, we don’t expect it anymore. Women need to say no unless they are getting a date. If he is really interested in more than just a booty call, he’ll do it. Man up ladies. We fought for so many years to have to have control, so fucking have it!

      • I don’t understand how you can have a threesome with one guy? Unless your saying if it’s another woman it doesn’t count?

      • This is pretty much it.
        A guy who is only looking for sex, yea, carse if your tight or not.
        but a why who wants his woman to stay with him, also takes into consideration her sleeping backround.
        if shes been with 20 guys in 3 weeks, why would I want to pursue that? Why take the chance that after a few months, i wont just be another boy toy because shes bored?
        If you are having one night stands, you’re probbly not looking for anything long lasting anyways – for both men and women.

        And you can’t generalize that for all men. Not all hot guys are douche bags, and not all “nice guys” are creeps.
        Not all hot women are sluts, and not all sheltered ones are ugly.

        But physical attraction does play a roll in dating.
        if you’re not attracted to someone, then the relationship wont be there.
        that’s not being shallow (for guys) or friend zoning (for women)

        and again, the fact that you’ve been sleeping with 3 different people in a week, does make people step back and go “how Do I know I know im not just going to be a sex toy”

        so, sex actually does have some imput on your “value” as a potential dating partner.

        someone who’s only slept with 2 people in 2 months, vs someone who’s slept with 10 people, will have a higher “value” to their name, to be more likely to go steady.

      • FINALLY a woman willing to not avert the blame and tell it like it is. Major props for this. Women need to understand exactly what you said, because if they keep pinning everything on the guys like usual, the behavior won’t stop because they won’t feel any responsibility. That victim card that a lot of people play has an expiration date.

      • FINALLY! A woman who is willing to take the side of the oppressor in order to avoid being ostracized for refusing to accept an archaic double standard!!! I was worried for a second there wouldn’t be any left after the whole women’s rights thing. Thank god sexism is alive and well!

      • We’re the oppressors for having standards on who we choose to date/marry?

        huehuehuehuehuehuehuehue

      • So are you trying to say that if say someone went through a tough time, maybe after a breakup (thats a popular one) and adapted to some poor coping mechanisms.. i.e. casual sex.., that she would in fact never be deserving of having one person in the future? I’m all for owning up to mistakes and standing behind my decisions but that seems a little harsh to me.
        People change, mature, and grow up. Saying that some bad decisions made in someone’s 20’s warrants for them never to deserve anything better than that in their later life is like saying “you stole a loaf of bread when you were 12, you’re now 35 and more mature and you’re still paying for that mistake…”

      • > So are you trying to say that if say someone went through a tough time, maybe after a breakup (thats a popular one) and adapted to some poor coping mechanisms.. i.e. casual sex.., that she would in fact never be deserving of having one person in the future?

        I don’t think anyone here can say who deserves what. But I can assure you that neither I nor any smart valuable guy would consider such a woman (slut/poor coping mechanism/whatever) as relationship material. She may or may not deserve a relationship in the future, She may or may not have a relationship in the future. But it won’t be with me. Or with any guy with a sense of self-worth.

        > I’m all for owning up to mistakes and standing behind my decisions but that seems a little harsh to me.

        Of course you think its harsh because you realize that you are one of those sluts/women with poor coping mechanism.

        > People change, mature, and grow up.

        People hardly change. Their priorities change. When sluts realize that they are getting old, losing their looks, and hotshot men are no longer attracted to them, they change their priority to lock down some loser via relationships/pregnancies/marriages. That’s not changing or maturing or growing up, That’s just a change in priorities.

        > Saying that some bad decisions made in someone’s 20′s warrants for them never to deserve anything better than that in their later life is like saying “you stole a loaf of bread when you were 12, you’re now 35 and more mature and you’re still paying for that mistake…”

        This is a stupid analogy. Besides, criminal records haunt you pretty much forever.

      • Excuse me, sir? You seem to be lost in the wrong time. Would you like a ride back to the early 1800s? Perhaps 1811?

      • Its funny how most the guys I know would probably sleep with a girl they find attractive within an hour of meeting her if the opportunity came up and women are apparently hoes with no value if they decide they want to have a one-night stand maybe once maybe more than once… Guys are the easiest gender to get with so stop calling us hoes. Men think its cool to fuck a hundred girls but they want to marry a virgin fuck you. Your an idiot. You obviously can’t develop a real relationship with a woman that would want to be committed to you because you clearly have no respect for them.

      • Good points but all I see here are comments on physical human capital. I think it may be fair to say that intellectual human capital only appreciates over time, thereby offsetting some of the negative effects of physical depreciation.

        I also think that if a man needs to be compensated for spending his time with a, “25 year old multi-buttocked, desouled, bernankifed woman” the woman should also be compensated for the risk she takes by staying with a man of equal disamenities.

      • If you want to use that logic (which is extremely intrinsically flawed by the way) then you’d have to apply the same logic to a man’s worth. Let’s say a man who has slept with 9 women before (this is the average number of sexual partners a man has) wants to pursue a woman who has only slept with 4 (this is the average number of sexual partners a woman has) then that would make his worth more negative than hers. Therefore, he must compensate the difference by paying the price (of time, energy, dates, etc.)

        You wouldn’t trade a 2011 Camry for a 1999 Camry without an extra cost to make up the difference would you? Well according to your horrible philosophy, the same principles apply.

        Therefore, if sexually activity dictates an individuals worth, then women are worth at least twice that of men (on average)

        Another way to determine the worth of men versus women is to consider the supply and demand principle. Here is some simple economics for you- when the supply is high and the demand is low, the value decreases. In contrast, when the supply is low and the demand is high, the value increases. Newsflash- this still principle applies to used products also. Most people with basic observation skills realize that for the most part, the demand for women is high and the supply tends to be low. This makes women highly valuable. Men, however, are in great supply which decreases the demand. This makes men much less valuable.

        However, if you are smart (which you clearly are not) then you will realize that each person’s worth is based on so much more than sexual activity.

        Each human is a unique, one of kind individual. No two are the same. This alone makes each human’s worth priceless. Even you, who clearly needs to re-evaluate your perspective and respect for women, are valuable because there is no one quite like you.

      • You’re not comparing apples to apples. Men have a different rubric by which we are evaluated. Logic is never “extremely intrinsically flawed,” however its application might be – as is the case with your analysis.

        If you are going to use the principle of supply and demand, it would be wise to consider the role substitutes play in affecting the demand of a good.

        Women with low notch counts are in extremely high demand for courtship ceteris paribus. Part of that courtship entails sexual interaction in exchange for exclusivity, resources et al. Your high notch count slut is a perfectly adequate substitute for the sexual interaction part of that transaction, however nobody with any real options is going to acquiesce to courtship demands from a tramp. You have conflated sex and courtship.

      • What, exactly, is this “different rubric” by which you are “evaluated?” And what makes it fair for men to be held to a different standard than women?

        I’m not necessarily even trying to be condescending, though I get the feeling that I most likely will disagree with you- I’m genuinely curious as to what your rationale is.

      • Men are evaluated more heavily on their overall status. Whether that status is derived via being attractive, successful, famous, etc, or some combination of those traits is irrelevant to a degree. The underlying premise is that in order for men to realize a high value in the SMP they must also project those things, i.e. they must have charisma.

        Firstly, the male standard is far more harsh than the female standard. Your gender has to do 3 things to attract and keep mates:

        1. Stay slim
        2. Don’t be promiscuous
        3. Be kind

        That list involves very little effort. Even the gym part isn’t fair for males – in order for a male to get what is considered a “hot” body requires years of meticulous dieting and a maniacal intensity in the gym; whereas a woman only needs to hit the elliptical for 35 minutes after work and avoid too many bagels after she done at the bars. Every guy in the world wishes it could be so easy.

        You’re implicitly advocating that the second criterion should be removed from the list because it is not on the list of traits that are used to evaluate men. I will explain to you why men are so skeptical of sluts.

        The first thing to consider is that in the SMP men are price takers when it comes to sex. I.e. they do not determine the conditions under which consensual intercourse will occur – which is the crux of this whole article and corresponding dialog. If you ladies decided to collude and hold out on the sex then men would be forced to court you. Why that doesn’t happen is a different story for another time.

        Conversely, men DO determine the conditions under which commitment will occur. Furthermore, with the advent of no-fault divorce and exorbitant alimony and child support payments there is a very strong disincentive structure in place for a man to commit to marriage.

        If you were a man today and you were about to make a decision about whether to commit, what criteria would you use to evaluate the suitability of your mate? To men, words do not mean much. We typically evaluate individuals by what they do, not by what they say. So when Susie Rottencrotch tells a man that “she’s not like that anymore,” it can only mean one of two things to a man:

        1. She’s lying
        2. He doesn’t turn her on enough for her to be like that anymore.

        Either way it doesn’t end well for her.

        Actions have consequences and those actions are what will be scrutinized, not the rationalizing diatribe that accompanies such behavior. We have a choice in this stuff too and that choice matters just as much as yours. Because our choice has been relegated to later on in the transaction does not mean its not important – otherwise this article wouldn’t be here.

      • I just wanted to say that I really appreciate how much your comment sounds like the argument from the Princess Bride where they’re trying to decide which cup the poison is in. Also, I’m frightened by how much your response resonates with the last two years in Business School I have under my belt.

        But since I feel like I need to comment on how idiotic everyone else sounds, and it seems as though there’s a few ladies in here that are okay with bashing “promiscuity” (Otherwise known as the norm for men in this society), maybe for moral reasons, maybe for their own insecurities, who knows.. but I think it’s sort of silly that women and men here are acting as though it’s a one size fits all equation here. Well! She slept with 10 guys in the last two months, so she’s way above the one who slept with 2 guys in the last two months! But wait, was that second one in a committed relationship with 1 person and then slept with the other the day after they parted ways? Or even during the relationship?

        Could it be that there are ladies out there that are fed up with having to go to a party and be interested in a guy? And decide that they are attracted to this person and would like to partake in casual, protected, consensual intercourse? WHOA! I can’t even imagine what that would be like… because I’m a lady with such pure thoughts! How dare I assist in your playing out of your good time without feeling badly about it after and being put down for my interests and emotions.

        Please, I implore you, read up on slut shaming and the use of the words you decide to inflict on people around you, hetero or homo. Cause they’re like, not detrimental or anything. I’m all about women empowering each other, and this is kinda sad to see the ladies here bashing other ladies for their actions. If they’re not rooted in malicious groundings, what exactly does it matter?

      • “Slut shaming”

        You can’t shame a slut. Sluts have no shame. Hahahaha

      • Right, because they make a conscious decision to engage in casual sex despite society’s efforts to shame them for it. You can’t shame me for engaging in casual sex or being a “slut” because your opinion means nothing to me. Rather than your ignorance and the tightness of my vagina, I’m relying on my intelligence, charm, wit, humor, compassion, loyalty, honesty, and personality to draw my self worth from.

      • Aww that’s cute. Is that what you plan on telling your 7 cats when you cry your old self to sleep alone?

      • I wish I could say anything to comfort you… Obviously there is a lot of hurt behind your words. I hope you’ll meet the right girl some day and that you wont scare her with suspicion, because then I would be you with the pets

      • But it is okay for you to go and have 1 night stand with a women and your totally 100% clean? It goes both ways.

      • 1. Most women can take care of themselves, we don’t need a guy to take care of us. So we aren’t marrying for money. 2. Marriage is about companionship not sex. It’s not a transaction, it’s enjoying eachothers company.

        I’m so lucky to have a boyfriend that respects me as a person and doesn’t view women as sex objects like you.

      • Ok I get the idea of wanting an unused woman… but I wonder. Are you unused? For the record I am actually a 26 year old woman, who is still a virgin, very successful, about to get married, and I don’t want a piece of trash boy that has been used. I didn’t let myself fall for the “Boys can do want they want” Crap. You are just as trashy as a used male as a multi buttocked woman.

        That is pretty gross too…

        So my point is, Don’t judge others. Their choices and yours are just that. Theirs and yours. If you don’t want a “used female” Stop making used females. If you enjoy sex and live freely with your ideas. Great! Enjoy. My choices were mine. And others were theirs. So what?

      • > Are you unused?

        The value of a man depends on standards set by women. So if you think a virgin man is better than so be it. But from my experience, women by and large prefer sexually experienced men where as men by and large prefer virginal women. That’s why you see virgin shaming for men and slut shaming for women.

      • What is with your grammar and language? Did you find your education in the trash or what?
        Ok, so what I got from this discussion is- the more partners a woman had, the more men are compared to, which makes it a matter of self-esteem, raising questions such as size of penis, sexual performance, satisfaction, and so on.

        Get real, come on! It’s also about intimacy, and trust, and freedom, experience, and the joy of being close to somebody. And, if for any reason it is considered as a gift, that is supposed to be rare, then in relation to LOVE, because romantic love is (supposed to be) rare. So, what I read from some posts here, is, that you are disappointed romantics who are cinical about love and have self esteem issues that make them feel helpless and without power. Power, you try to gain back from the women, who make “the choice”, by posing judgement on them and setting other standards for men.
        Also, taking the hetereosexual example, how can men be promiscious without women? Where would all these men find their experience if there weren’t women who live out their sensual desires?

        Btw, I don’t care what you say. As long as I am not in a relationship, that we both agreed to be monogamous, I will sleep with whomever I feel like. I base my value on how good I was at following MY expectations on life, and not somebody elses. The approval of anyone won’t make me happy, whereas my own approval will, as long as I live.

        For all those who say that this prejudices against women are not going to change: we went from matriarchy to patriarchy, so why not go back to the middle and try for a balanced situation. Everything can happen, the world was claimed to be flat once, too!

      • So by your own account *A woman is only worth what she gives her pussy away for * you’re just looking for the most expensive slut out there. Now follow your logic along with me. A 25 year old woman has sex with 5 guys but she liked all of those guys so she gave her all to them for free including sex. Her 25 year old friend says fuck love I want money. At this point she has also only slept with 5 guys but she charges them $1000 a piece. Your can’t find love ass meets both of these women when you and them are 40 an woman has slept with 15 men she thought would work out while woman b has slept with $50 for $$$ so far. Your obviously going to pick woman b right since her pussy is worth $50,000 at this point? It will only appreciate in value since she’s never given it away for free and never will except for you of course.

    • You can’t blame the girl who wrote this, or women in general, for there not being a guy version of this. If you feel so strongly about it, then write about it! All people do these days is play the blame game and take no responsibility. If you want to see something done, then do it yourself! Women can’t write this from a guys point of view, because we aren’t guys! What else is she suppose to talk about other then guys and how they treat her and the women she knows. So sit your ass down, AND WRITE AWAY!!

  2. I have given up with traditional dating. because every girl will eventually just blow me off or just want to be friends. So why waste my money? The last girl that i tried to date, went on 4 or 5 dates took it very slow. We only kissed and we pretty much only ever talked about what we wanted out of a relationship. Then she just texts me saying shes not attracted to me and doesn’t really want to see me anymore…..

    • fag, if you don’t fuck by the 3rd date max. get out, she will friendzone you or worse string you along for more free meals

      • THIRD date? If you don’t get laid within an hour of meeting her, you’re wasting your time, you pussy.

      • If you aren’t having sex before you’ve even swapped names, then she’s a fucking cocktease

      • if you haven’t banged her and at least one of her hot friends 3 hours after meeting, you’re obviously gay…..that’s just science

      • Here is what I don’t understand:

        Men, you complain that women are devaluing themselves by sleeping with multiple men and then disregard women who don’t sleep with you immediately. Maybe part of the problem is that the women who you deem worthy of marriage, your ruling out immediately because they don’t give you the instant sexual gratification you desire and then the women who do, you deem unworthy of marriage. You can’t have it both ways.

        You brag about conquests and then shame the women you sleep with. If all women stayed as chaste as you desired for marriage, who would you sleep with? This makes no sense. Is the only purpose of marriage sexual gratification? I thought it was also about mutual support and friendship. If you base a marriage solely on sexual passion, you’re guaranteed a divorce. Passion is fickle.

        Also, if you truly believed that women being promiscuous devalues them, you wouldn’t sleep with them out of wedlock if you weren’t a complete asshole. Your devaluing someone elses future wife, someones daughter, someones mother. You must fucking hate women if your lifes goal is to devalue as many women as you possibly can by fucking them.

      • Thank you for this. I am 22-year-old womam and unlike a lot of people who have commented on this article, I am still in college. I am still figuring out what it means to live in a modern world with old values but different priorities. I don’t want to get married at this point, but I only recently lost my virginity….because I lack experience and am intimidated by the people who have 10 times the experience I have had. And I have had 1 relationships that ended prematurely because I did not want to sleep with him a month into it…..I have also not had positive sexual experiences until recently.

        I have been sexually assaulted…..and it makes it 10 times harder for me to open up to any guy. I took the initiative to lose my virginity because I wanted a positive sexual experience…despite not being in a relationship. Well, the sex was awful and embarassing for me because I had no clue what I was doing, but he at least was kind about it and accepting and did not push me any further than I wanted to go. We are definitely not going to have any kind of relationship; I think it is a mutual feeling.

        Let’s be honest….men and women my age don’t usually want to date someone with 0 sexual experience. Sex for the sake of sex is a waste of time unless it’s good. I know it is 10 times better when you actually care about the person you are with. The awkward sexual situations become funny instead of weird. You can actually tell each other what you like.

        I figure is better to have some sexual experience than none. Am I going to have to lie about it, so that people don’t think I am weird? Probably. But it will also make it easier for me to navigate the world of dating and hook-ups and friendships with some kind of idea of what it means to have sex.

      • Its not like I am the only guy she’s sleeping with and if I didn’t sleep with her, her value would remain intact. Shes already banged two dozen other guys before I even meet her. She’s already devalued.

        Whether she sleeps with 49 guys (excluding me) or 50 guys (including me). Its not a big difference.

        So I might as well be one of the 50 guys that fuck her. LOL.

    • Ugh, right?? She should at LEAST give you a handy after that many dates. Honestly the proper bargaining value of five dates is a couple blowjobs and some good fucking, no speaking allowed, but I mean is it soo bad to expect just a handy? It’s not like you’re an unreasonable guy or anything. And god FORBID she want to still be friends, as if you have time to hang out with some chick who’s not fucking you. Blegh, you’re totally right, dating sucks dude.

      • This guy never said he was trying to get sex out of this girl.

        Instead he got dumped after 4 – 5 dates.

        Whereas the guy who pressures for sex on the first date finds out right away if the girl is into him, or if she’s just going to be a waste of time.

        And, no, I don’t want to be friends with a girl I was attracted to and wanted to take out on dates who wants to be just “friends”. I already have lots of friends, including female friends.

      • I am saving sex for marriage. If guy pressures me for sex on the first date, it just won’t work out due to very different values.

      • More power to you, it is one of those things that can ruin your relationship with anyone. If that’s all they’re interested in and not you, you are wasting your time.

      • And you, miss, having discovered the only thing that actually works.

        If more girls would be like you, then guys like me wouldn’t have to feel like losers for not pressuring for sex on the first date, and knowing that many guys before me have done so–and succeeded.

        You will be happy in life.

      • I was sexually assaulted as a young girl, so even if I really like a guy, it takes me weeks if not months to feel physically safe enough for sexual contact. If a guy were to pressure me into sex on the first date, it wouldn’t work out even if having intimate contact in the future was something that I wasn’t opposed to.

        If someone isn’t willing to respect my boundaries and wait until I feel safe and comfortable with them, then I don’t see why I would want to be in a relationship with them.

      • I hope you tell the guys you date about your sexual assault. How are they supposed to know they should respect your boundaries, if you don’t tell the the boundaries exist in the first place?

      • Um shouldn’t you always respect a girls boundaries regardless of any history of sexual assault?

      • If a girl won’t let you have sex with her “soon,” it should not put her into the friend category or “wasting your time” category. If you need sex right away to see value in a relationship then you are delusional. Why would you want a girl who just gives it up? Do you like the idea of falling in love with someone knowing that 10 men know exactly what she looks like naked? Do you like the idea of the person you want to spend your life with having 10 chances to get HIV? If you want a set sex to money ratio, go look for a real prostitute instead of tricking women into thinking you actually care about them.

      • If a girl isn’t having sex with me soon, I will put her into “wasting my time” category for two reasons.

        1) I could find someone else who will sleep with me without wasting my time.
        2) She’s slept with other guys before. She did it soon enough. If she’s not doing it with me, it basically means she’s not attracted to me. Why should I even bother with someone not attracted to me?

        > Why would you want a girl who just gives it up?

        Pretty much every girl “gave it up” in her past without even knowing the guy’s name. So why not with me? She’s just a waste of time.

        > Do you like the idea of falling in love with someone knowing that 10 men know exactly what she looks like naked?

        Don’t really believe in “love”. Also, I am sure more than 10 men know how she looks like naked. That’s true for an average girl.

        > If you want a set sex to money ratio, go look for a real prostitute instead of tricking women into thinking you actually care about them.

        Hookers are expensive.

      • I am disgusted at all the comments made. Perhaps why they want to be a friends is because you are looking at them as a sex object. You do something nice, they are expected to perform some sexual favor. That is degrading and means that you do not value her as a woman. You are looking for sexual gratification, in which case you should not be complaining about not finding a relationship because you are looking for a hooker.

      • You, and the poster you replied to, are putting words in OP’s mouth. What he’s saying is that trying to put in effort, doing things the right way, yields no results, ie, a continuing relationship. Did he say he was pushing for sex? Doesn’t look like it to me. Heck, I would LOVE to meet a guy who was willing to go on four dates with me without attempting to stick his dick in my mouth.

        People like you are the problem, not this guy. People like you, conflating male desire for a relationship with sexual objectification, are the problem. People like you are the reason why guys like this get discouraged, and adopt a “I might as well enjoy the buffet” attitude.

      • Thank you, Cynthia.

        I used to put in the effort to do this. I’d like to still be able to put in the effort with a quality girl, and not have to deal with pressuring for sex early in the relationship.

        Unfortunately, doing that takes me nowhere, even with so-called “nice” girls.

        The only thing that will make things better is if more girls act like you and actually (a) stop giving up sex on the first date, and (b) stop rejecting guys who don’t push for sex on the first, or 3rd, or 5th date.

      • This depends on the type of girl you’re going for.
        for the most part, “drop dead sexy ass girls” who’s able to pick any “drop dead sexy ass guy” that’s going after them, probably isn’t looking for someone steady.

        Im not saying you’re ugly, or the girls you’ve been going after are super models.
        but,
        I was talking to my girlfriend for about 2 weeks before sex was even brought up, and 4 months before we actually had sex.

        It all depends on the person you’re looking for.
        If a girl rejects you after the 3rd or 4th date, its not because you didn’t pressure for sex. its because she simply she wasn’t attracted to you, either mentally or physically.
        it has nothing to do with “being a nice guy” or “not pressuring for sex”
        using the “im a nice guy, so girls don’t want me” is bullshit.
        the girl your going after doesn’t want you, because you’re not a hunk, who’s an arrogant asshole, who is a show off, and a man whore. – the type of people shes use to having go after her.

        and if she doesn’t like you, then shes probably not your type either, because shed probably get bored of you, and go after someone else who’s better eye candy then you.

        If you truly are a nice guy, you dont have to keep complaining about girls friend zoning you because you’re a nice guy.
        you’re either going after bitches, who just want to party and fuck,
        or simply, the girl isint attracted to you.
        it doesnt mean you’re a pussy for not pressuring sex.
        it means… she wasnt attracted to you.

        and if you truly are a “nice guy” and keep it up, you’ll find a respectable women who will be everything you wanted and more.

      • I second this. But all the commonplace a-holes get butthurt over these kinds of comments. They want everyone to fail in exactly the same way they do, I think.

      • Damn, this is the best way a woman should think. Truly understands the male desire. To us, sex is just as important in a relationship as is communication. Just because we want to appreciate your body and beauty by bumping uglies, doesn’t mean we’re automatically objectifying you as a gratification tool.

      • If we had legal prostitution like in the netherlands, you bet your sweet ass, that no guy will be paying for a date, Western women are only worth their youth, so why waste money, for a less than 50% chance at sex, when it is guranteed.

      • Amen. I Am not familiar with these kind of opinions, and the values I read throughout the article and the comments are absolutly shocking! What kind of game is love and marriage in this society? In my society you can have sex with absolutly who you want, be with you want and do what you want. And the dating rules are not different between male and female. Get this, the ones who bother to read my comment: THE BOYS ARE NOT SUPPOSE TO PAY FOR THE WOMAN. He can, and it is seen a nice gesture from time to time, but it is never a must in my culture. I earn my own fucking money. And I’m so glad I live in a society which sees me for me, and not for my love strategies.
        Best regards from Norway

      • Your not listening! Its not about who pays. Its about guys who have no respect for women at all and women who complain but then keep this vicious cycle going. A guy who truly likes you isn’t going to call u up at 2 in the morning and only 2 in the morning every weekend. A guy who respects you is going to take you out in public and spend time with you somewhat sober we there the date is a romantic dinner or a free outdoor concert. Women are always willing to shrug off “guy” behavior but then play the angry femmenist. Hold up your end of the bargain ladies! To respect you he needs to see you respect yourself. All that aside I have nothing against A healthy one night stand just don’t expect him to be your next serious boyfriend…

      • You’re naive. Girls never really mean it when they say they just want to be friends. At best, they never want to see you again. At worst, they want to use you as an emotional tampon.

    • I’m sorry the last lady didn’t work out, but don’t give up, bro! What if the next girl is worth your time and you ruin the relationship you’ve been looking for? Relationships aren’t easy, whether you take the traditional route or the fast lane, but if you want something to last, your best bet is to stay traditional; I’ve seen many other blogs about girls wishing for traditional men, such as yourself. Keep looking man, she IS out there, searching for someone willing to just spend time with her as a friend AND a boyfriend. Show her you value her person more than the pleasure she can give you. Be a man and fight for what you really want because she’s worth it and you owe the best to yourself.
      I’m rooting for you, dude. Fight on.

      • Right? that’s what they would end up telling him. Girls THINK they want a traditional guy, but they don’t Because a lot of times, they don’t know what the fuck they want, which is not a traditional guy.

      • You can’t just generalize people like that. In addition, things in life do not come easy. That includes relationships. You need a lot of patience to find that person perfect for you. Yes, it’s difficult and it’s annoying; but not everything is going to be handed to you like that. Some people are lucky finding someone right away and some people have to wait. It’s life.

      • Yeah. All girls want the traditional guy once they have ridden all the others – the biker guy, the athletic guy, the black guy, the artsy guy, the rich guy, etc etc.

        I know that the list is long and you as the traditional guy are all the way at the bottom, but one of those “ladies” are bound to go through their list sooner or later.

        Nothing stops you from being a friend to one of these women. All women riding the carousel need beta orbiters and emotional tampons like you to unload their feelings onto and to give them a shoulder to cry on, after a hard ride by one of the alphas.

        I mean, there’s nothing that gives you more pleasure than listening to one of those girls talk about how some guy is such a jerk and how many yards of dong she has sampled. Just don’t get discouraged when you ask, why she keeps riding them, and she comforts you with being “such a nice guy” line.

        Meanwhile, don’t stop showing them your “value”, by taking them out to free dinners and movies. Those girls will respect you for being a good beta provider and not having any game and balls to ask anything in return. Remember, like he said, that relationships are not easy and you as the guy have to do all the work.

        Once those “ladies” are in their late 30s, are done riding the carousel, and have become single mothers by one of the alphas they failed to entrap in marriage, you get to MARRY THEM. This is when you cash in all your chips by being a good stepfather to one of their alpha bastards.

        So keep on being that nice guy and keep on being yourself. I’m sure you’ll find that perfect unicorn one day.

      • ^Best reply right here, by Dr. Killpatient. You know what killed “dating” in its older, more traditionalist form? Feminism. Now, these girls have to sleep in the bed that feminism made for them, and which they so eagerly accepted and embraced.

        These women think it’s bad now? Just WAIT until more and more men begin to awaken in a snowballing effect of turning these worthless American women down for the trash they are, demanding dates but riding cocks on the carousel all the way into their thirties, when they finally hit The Wall, and then having the NERVE to ask for some “decent guy”(a beta orbiter she can abuse and exploit) to marry her feminist-ed, entitled, princess-complex ass, even after all they do is turn down nice guys until they hit that wall.

        No, OP, you DON’T get dates. You get exactly what women have demanded for three decades. EQUALITY.

        You are now men in women’s bodies, you had better start getting with the program, and fucking like men, because that’s exactly what you demanded.

      • Wow just what women do you know? I think it is kind of funny that you are talking about this considering that if those are the types of girls you know that says something about you, just as much as it does about them. All these supposed women who “ride cocks up into their 30’s” definitely indicates quite a bit about who you are as a person if those are the only female you either know or associate yourself with. I agree feminism has impacted the idea of “dating” but just as much as the females perspective has changed, so has the males. Honestly I think that people believe it is this way due to the influence of media. Don’t blame everything on feminists it is only a portion of females that you can actually claim as feminists. Also I think you have quite a few misconceptions about feminism. NOT ALL FEMINISTS ARE HARDCORE MAN HATERS. Look i am not telling you that you are wrong in all accounts, the principles of marriage have changed in recent years. If you are this negative about women though it must mean you have experienced something to back up your statements. I feel bad for you, and want to remind you that not all females are like that. Also not all Americans are “trashy, sluts” and there are non-American women who are. You should never generalize because that will put you in plenty of awkward and miserable situations, I think that it is both men and women’s fault that dating has morphed into something entirely different. Never say that the nice guy doesn’t win because in many cases they do.

      • I think you are probably a feminist yourself, but you make a few good points, the most poignant of which is that men have morphed also, and second, that my statements are backed by experience.

        It is for just the reason you mentioned, that men have also changed, that I do not associate with most men beyond an acquaintance or associate level. However, I’m not attracted to men, so they do not figure into my comments regarding dating and feminism.

        And two, yes, my experience with women HAS been with precisely the kind of women I am describing, and that is why I have stopped dating, BECAUSE I do not the women I date to say something about me, if these are the kinds of women I am going to continually meet and date, because they only ever turn out this way once they drop the “normal” facade. I would be willing to bet that most women ARE exactly as I’ve described, but that most of them know how to hide their exploitative, abusive tendencies behind such a facade as permits them to move about in society without raising alarms.

        I do not want the “cock carousel girls”, but these are what most women reveal themselves to be, after you’ve (I’ve) gotten to know them beyond an acquaintance level. So, I quit. I would rather go without, in abstinence. Women reflecting poorly on me? No thanks, not interested.

        Now, a few of your points:

        “just as much as the females perspective has changed, so has the males”
        It sure does, which is why I don’t like most of them, either. However, they also don’t figure into deep physiological and psychological drives like women do, so they’re far easier to avoid altogether.

        “Honestly I think that people believe it is this way due to the influence of media.”
        Yes, the media is minsandrist, which is to say that it continually derides and belittles men. This is a most visible feminist victory.

        “Don’t blame everything on feminists it is only a portion of females that you can actually claim as feminists.”
        Of course not. Most men ruin everything for the few who are truly autonomous and individualist by kowtowing and caving in to the demands of feminist women, and will do anything to fuck women, even to their own and other men’s detriment. Men will fuck women even if it feeds a princess entitlement complex borne of feminism. Most men are dumb animals easily led to their own slaughter…………at the hands of women.

        “NOT ALL FEMINISTS ARE HARDCORE MAN HATERS.”
        No, but mainstream feminism is directed by the doctrines that are about hating, killing, castrating, and reducing the population of men. I have facts and sources to back this up.

        “not all females are like that.”
        Newsflash for you: all women ARE like that, by degrees, and all men are EXACTLY what women wish they weren’t. Most men also deserve exactly what they get for continually pussy-begging and white-knighting for the vagooner. FUCK most men. Let them burn.

        “You should never generalize because that will put you in plenty of awkward and miserable situations, I think that it is both men and women’s fault that dating has morphed into something entirely different.”
        Fair, but nothing could be more awkward than a feminist society.
        Women wanted to change dating, so feminism said they were sexually liberated and just as capable of hookup culture as men. Once they got what they asked for, men (the pussy-beggars) took advantage of it and almost never settled down or went long-term. Once feminists got exactly what they asked for, they cried about it and asked where all the good men had gone, why men weren’t settling down and marrying or taking responsibility, why men entered into the so-called “extended adolescence”. The good men went exactly where feminism told them to………into non-existence; feminism says that men are not good.

        No matter how many laws or how much “progress” feminism forces upon men, they will never be happy, and will call for only more change, because women’s unhappiness is never their fault. Only men are responsible.

        Feminism and suffragism are based on lies, told often enough that everyone believes them. Women were never oppressed as a class based on gender, when similar numbers of men weren’t also “oppressed”.

        “Never say that the nice guy doesn’t win because in many cases they do.”
        I don’t believe this. I have never seen it.

      • Wow this person is absolutely right and just put everything I thought about women into words. You’re my hero.

      • Feminism is the belief that men and women should have equal rights. Whenever a marginalized group asks for more rights, the privileged always fear that their rights will be taken away. This fear isn’t based in reality. I don’t hate men, I just don’t want to be seen as inferior simply because I have tits.

      • Blah blah blah, you yap as if feminism is still the underdog.

        Accept the new reality Mary Sue. Feminism has won. Feminism is the establishment now. Feminism is “the man”.

      • That’s not even insulting. What, I’m supposed to believe that you’re NOT an idiot? You don’t even have an argument to make. Fuck outta here.

      • I’ll have to agree with you about something. I’m a 21 yo woman looking for a serious relationship. BUT, every single married woman from my family keep saying “you’re so young for a serious relationship, enjoy until you’re 30” dude wtf, am I supposed to sleep around for 9 years AND THEN look for prince charming????
        Dunno about america, but here in Brasil relationships are doomed. It’s hard to find somebody who’s looking for something more, and when you realize, you’re also playing the game.

      • lolz I was wondering where the Red Pill’s were. I imagine you all jerking off in your moms’ basements to fantasies of the women who turned you down in life being beaten. Luckily for women, only a small minority of men think this way and the millions of good ones understand what is actually important in a partner. Sorry it bothers you women are working on their careers in their 20s and getting married in their 30s. Oh wait, no I’m not sorry 😉

      • And “the biker guy, the athletic guy, the black guy (…seriously?), the artsy guy, the rich guy” are equated with “can’t _possibly_ be traditional, nice guys”?

        For every type/grouping of people, there are jerky people and nice people.

        Maybe instead of getting to know the girl whining (you could be exaggerating what she is complaining about or how upset she really is), maybe get to know her boyfriend… maybe you’ll learn how to be the perfect balance between “nice & traditional” and “cool & attractive”.

        Unless she’s complaining of abuse, in which the truly nice thing (chivalrous AND feminist… they aren’t always in conflict) to do is to get her a counselor and/or support line.

      • 100% Truth, Dr Killpatient. Besides, I’m a black, athletic, artistic semi-affluent guy (don’t own a bike though)—but I also lean more towards traditional. Sure, I’ve had my share of women wanting to “hook-up” FOR the experience of being with someone like me while not expecting a relationship.

        When they realize the “D” ain’t no joke, THEN sh*t gets serious. They want a relationship all of a sudden. I won’t pin it all on the ladies, but damn it… they play games. We’re very blunt and straight forward creatures.

        Women invented the chase. If you want to change the way men value you, change the way you value yourselves (and the women around you). In other words, don’t hang around skanks. Someone alluded to it being the way of “Western girls”. They have a very valid point, while I’ll also admit that there are many foreigners that are suspect as well, our culture here in the States sell sex. Our generation has bought into it. We have a show called “16 and Pregnant” for gods sake and one of the hugest female stars is a Kardashian that f*cked an entertainer on video to get famous.

        Women, the male sex drive is not a game. Don’t underestimate it. Its not to say that we’re beyond commitment and responsibility, but as long as there is a woman willing to put out for minimal effort, a man will proposition 1,000 women until that one ruins it for you all, especially now that the “hook-up” is a cultural norm.

      • Wait… Why in the hell is the “Black Guy” a different category than the others? Like what? they can’t be the norm. I’m not playing devil’s advocate here, that’s just racist as hell man, it may seem subtle but it is.

      • That’s my boy! I’m really happy to see you haven’t lost that empty, false sense of self confidence I drilled into you every night back when I was trying to deal with your mother cheating on me again. Don’t let those women see your soft side! Keep it up champ, and remember- The brand makes the man, not the other way around!

      • Yeah. All girls want the traditional guy once they have ridden all the others – the biker guy, the athletic guy, the black guy, the artsy guy, the rich guy, etc etc.

        I know that the list is long and you as the traditional guy are all the way at the bottom, but one of those “ladies” are bound to go through their list sooner or later.

        Nothing stops you from being a friend to one of these women. All women riding the carousel need beta orbiters and emotional tampons like you to unload their feelings onto and to give them a shoulder to cry on, after a hard ride by one of the alphas.

        I mean, there’s nothing that gives you more pleasure than listening to one of those girls talk about how some guy is such a jerk and how many yards of dong she has sampled. Just don’t get discouraged when you ask, why she keeps riding them, and she comforts you with being “such a nice guy” line.

        Meanwhile, don’t stop showing them your “value”, by taking them out to free dinners and movies. Those girls will respect you for being a good beta provider and not having any game and balls to ask anything in return. Remember, like he said, that relationships are not easy and you as the guy have to do all the work.

        Once those “ladies” are in their late 30s, are done riding the carousel, and have become single mothers by one of the alphas they failed to entrap in marriage, you get to MARRY THEM. This is when you cash in all your chips by being a good stepfather to one of their alpha basterds.

        So keep on being that nice guy. I’m sure you’ll find that perfect unicorn one day.

    • You went on 4-5 dates and it didn’t work out.

      BIG FUCKING DEAL

      GET OVER IT

      Just because you went on a few dates with someone and “only kissed” doesn’t mean you are entitled to sex or a wedding. Move on and find a girl who likes you after 4-5 dates. The point of traditional dating is to find ONE GOOD SERIOUS RELATIONSHIP and MARRIAGE. Not a bajillion hookups.

    • I will tell you what it is that might have made her say that. Half these comments that sound horrible aren’t all that wrong, but they aren’t right either.

      Speaking from experience, when a man asks me out I take great consideration in his personality. I like a man who treats me well, but he can’t be SUBMISSIVE. Girls don’t want men to bow to their feet and do everything they say. They want someone to challenge them mentally. It’s just sad to watch. You need to be your own man, but not some douche.

      Mentally, females want a male who can protect them and their young, so a submissive guy becomes unattractive pretty quickly. You need to be assertive, but not overwhelming and pushy.

      If the date goes well, move in for a kiss. If it continues to go well the next date, give her more passion. Third date, kiss her passionately and run your hands up and down her body, get her blood flowing, you don’t have to have sex. She might have lost interest if it didn’t seem like you were really showing any. Make HER want YOU. You wanna be the only thing she thinks about that night.

      I have never heard any of my friends say a guy is just a free meal. Relationships are hard and you have to keep trying. One of my guy friends is very submissive and he has a hard time keeping a woman’s interest, he gives her everything she wants and submits to her every whim, just to be dropped at the snap of her fingers. To a woman, a man that submits instead of testing her, gets boring really quick.

      • And when did the woman start having zero responsibility in fostering a RELATIONSHIP?
        Relationship capitalized because it does in fact mean two people not a man and an object.

        You’re objectifying yourselves by placing yourself on a pedestal as something to be won over by aggressive moves and sharp looks. Maybe if women actually gave being reasonable and making advances of their own they might actually end up with what they want, hmm?

      • I never said sharp looks, I’m saying that she was obviously interested at first if they went out on many dates. Women don’t say “well at least he’s a free meal” unless it’s the first date, if she wasn’t interested then she would have said enough by the second or third.

        And I quote “one of my guy friends is very submissive and has a hard time keeping a woman’s interest, he gives her everything she wants and submits to her every whim, just to be dropped at the snap of her fingers” implying that he shouldn’t and doesn’t have to put her on a pedestal! More over, it’s not a good idea! She’ll never be satisfied and you’ll get the boot in the end.

        And just so you know! Men aren’t the only ones who have to foster a relationship! I’m always the first to apologize in an argument. I’m not the first to text in the morning because I let him sleep in, I always make sure our relationship is on a good ground and that we are both happy.

        I’m not putting myself on a pedestal, when my boyfriend and I got together, I set up the date, paid for the whole thing, made the first move, and if he didn’t give a little back, I would have dropped him for the assumption he wasn’t interested. All I’m saying is be a man, she was more than likely waiting for him to give her a little passion.

      • This is a very good point 🙂 when someone labels themselves a ‘nice guy’ I dont automatically thing of this but it is true. You can be too nice in a certain sense; women are often attracted to men who are KIND but ALSO assertive and confident. That is not to say that less confident guys cant get women. But, if you dont have that confidence, it’s important not to overcompensate. Open the door for her; dont throw your coat over a puddle.